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1.6 TI-VCT engine tap/knock.

nduk5

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#1
Hi, new owner here.

i've read up a little bit about this tapping/knocking sound and i'm wondering if this noise coming from my car is something to be worried about, i've recently changed the oil and filter.

the noise is a little bit louder when cold, only noticeable really at idle, and after driving it for about 10-15 mins this is what it sounds like:

https://youtube.com/shorts/Ej7OGIFWojM?feature=share
 

scotman

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#2
Does the condition occur even when the oil and filter has just been replaced? Or, does it go away when you are running fresh oil and filter?
If everything else is in reasonable condition, ticking is usually a symptom of either a loss of flow, or a restriction. It’s possible that the oil pump might not be working properly. But, that would generally result in a lot of noise when you are driving and the pump isn’t meeting the demand.
From the video, I think it’s a restriction. It sounds like the top end is being starved of oil.
Not knowing the ownership and maintenance history I can only make a guess.
 
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nduk5

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Thread Starter #3
Does the condition occur even when the oil and filter has just been replaced? Or, does it go away when you are running fresh oil and filter?
If everything else is in reasonable condition, ticking is usually a symptom of either a loss of flow, or a restriction. It’s possible that the oil pump might not be working properly. But, that would generally result in a lot of noise when you are driving and the pump isn’t meeting the demand.
From the video, I think it’s a restriction. It sounds like the top end is being starved of oil.
Not knowing the ownership and maintenance history I can only make a guess.
I put 5 30 oil in it, different sources say 5 20, and some say 5 30. I'm unsure of the history also. it is at its loudest when cold, after driving for 10 minutes it's not very audible. The car drives fine otherwise.
 

scotman

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#4
When you pull off the oil filler cap, if you can shine a bright light onto the cam, does it look relatively clean or are the surfaces in there covered with black crud?
I have never seen any issues with using 5w30 instead of the recommended 5w20 except for the immediate loss of 1mpg in fuel economy.
 
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nduk5

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Thread Starter #5
Will have a look tomorrow, if there's high carbon deposits, any recommendations ?
 

scotman

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#6
I can’t recommend much beyond just using the proper grade oil at the right level on the dipstick and filters of known quality.
I would be doing a oil pressure test with a service kit for measuring the system pressure at idle. Oil pumps don’t fail very often. Most people don’t understand that the pump only creates flow volume. The oil pressure is actually created in the crankshaft bearings internal clearances. If the crankshaft bearing clearances opens up because of extensive wear, you could have a loss of oil pressure that would get the oil pumped up to the lifters. That’s a worst case scenario.
 

Handy Andy

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#7
1685279544437.png

Welcome to the Forums!

To help - the above is a "Cut away" of the cams display of a 4-cylinder 1.6L they use in our Fiestas.

The "root" is Sigma - then moved to Duratec (goes by those names including others)

The "Tapping"? You're not alone - I too, being a delivery driver, our fleet we use Ford - including Fiestas.

The startup and running especially in the Morning - these things are noisy tapping rattle that can be heard across our parking lot. It's due to the wear of the cam lobe to follower clearance that moves the valves as they follow the cam.

We use 5W-20 in various blends so the noise doesn't go away - it's a clearance issue - so either you rebuild the upper cylinder head or just live with it.

So to help with oil passage, how or what filters are you using for your Oil?

As @scotman already eluded to, the volume of oil from the pump is what makes the "pressure" appear on gauges, so if the oil level got too low or cavitated from excessive speed or rev-up - that foaming and cavitation can cause some damages so using a good quality oil is important but also begs the question of other aspects of maintenance.

Since the vehicle I use is a 2013 Fiesta S with Auto (no nothing sporty) with currently over 184,000mi (or +296,000km - take that! you warranty freaks!) I'm not going to have them to simply drop the motor and fix the noise, because once the engine is warned up - that noise is nearly gone. I sit in traffic so I hear other vehicles noisy engines far more than what I can hear out of the Fiestas motor I run with.

But to help that upper cylinder head with a lot of miles on it, might need a rebuild - but as to the lack of or possible failure - it's not imminent - as long as the service intervals for maintenance have been followed an performed - you should be ok.

It is a 2011 Fiesta - that's a pretty good track record

But the deposits you mention in another post concerns me...

I want you to think of the following as a "third party" looking from the outside as an observer - for I see tapping noises from previous vehicles I've owned as a sign of premature wear - and you'd have a right to feel cautious in that way too.

So, as if you did up a checklist...

If you used the proper oil (5W30 or even 5W20 - only small viscosity changes between the two - else the 5W properties remain the same) and used the recommended filter - this tapping sound may mean something got cleaned out - especially when you have NOT done an oil change in a year or you just got the car and you don't know or see any maintenance records.
1685328236499.png
I also presume you checked the Radiator for blockage and or leaks and the Coolant tank (on right side of the engine compartment) that it is intact not leaking and has fluid in it. An overheating motor can deform the engine and you get noises like this when the valve train "lobs" due to the warpage or high heat deformation in the bearing to journal clearances - lets more oil flow out but reduces the pressure present to flow further into the motor - let alone keep the metal to metal contact from occurring.

If the old oil filter had rust on it, then it's a sign that gunk and lack of an oil change from previous - is the reason - the gunk kept the noise down, until the new oil cleared out the passages and the filter is plugging up from the gunk the got loosened.

That the "black crud" you speak of, usually indicates low-heat, short trips with little start-stop traffic.

That may be more of a self-perpetuating demon that kills engines - it's called short trip.

Rich fuel mixtures are needed when a vehicle is first started up - so that alone can generate a lot of soot and dilute oil because the unburned fuel and soot reduce the oils effectiveness as being a lubricant - even though it has detergents and suspension qualities - that does little good if the particles can't get trapped in the oil filter or removed thru the tailpipe - or worse they do get removed, but plug up the filter media and reduce it's ability to flow a given volume of oil the engine needs for every revolution it makes.

In using todays oil formulations this "crud" is less likely when the engine is driven even for only a 10 minute short trip to and from work. So this tells me that there may be some thermal or short trip drives that - show you how the motor slowly dies a carbonized sooty death from the build up - a lot like a smoker that when you're behind them in traffic, you can easily see (and smell) their habit(s) are well underway.

It is also sad to see the condition of the vehicle, (the photo above) in some cases; the habit takes precedence more than the maintenance of the vehicle.

Now, after several weeks into this, I reviewed your video and I noticed something far more disturbing.

Did you "catch" the noise - it's increase of VOLUME? When you went to the pavement with the camera facing the motor?

That is when the noise got a LOT LOUDER and that is where my concern is.

You recently did an oil change - so as long as the Oil Light 1686531704793.png symbol is not on, you seem to be ok.

But the noise is from the BOTTOM of the motor - that is the area around the Crank and the exhaust manifold to catalyst.

Did you do anything further to find that noise?
 
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Paarlite

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#8
@Handy Andy your response above is so accurate. I just had my 2010 1.6 fiesta engine completely rebuilt, after 200 000km. The Tapping noise sounded even fresher and healthier, but my guy told me the exact same thing you explained above. Maybe a loud exhaust will help.
 

Handy Andy

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#9
Hmmm. Loud exhaust? Well, if it's like any experiences with my ex-wife, I used a coffee can as a means to gasket the two pipes that rusted thru at the joint, to hold it together.

Does not work on all vehicles or in every condition...

I remember many a time having a chance to stop the car either at a sign or at the light, and ask "Did you say anything while I was driving?" - sheepishly - to let her know if she was talking - I simply could not hear over the noise of that bad exhaust.

Wanted to ask, since you stopped by to report, was the Oil filter ok?

I am aware of how an engine gets ruined by a collapsed oil filter media - that blocks the oil flowing thru it - starving the motor until it conks out or you get it in to replace that bad filter.
 


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